Patsy Clairmont: Our problems in our life are a gift. They are our curriculum. They are where we will learn the deepest lessons, where our bitterness will be turned into compassion for others. 

Shattered But Unbroken: Patsy Clairmont & Gil Schaenzle  – Episode #418

Narrator: Welcome to the Jesus Calling Podcast. Our first guest, Patsy Clairmont, is a renowned author, speaker, and one of the founding speakers for Women of Faith. Patsy’s early years were marked by severe anxiety and depression. Whispering prayers of desperation for anything to help her through this time, she was surprised by the small, simple steps God gave her that helped her emerge from the darkness. The surprises would continue to come as she moved from barely being able to leave the house to speaking to millions of people—inspiring them with her humor, wisdom, and stories of overcoming.

Later in the episode, we’ll hear from Gil Schaenzle, known as the National Park Mom. After her daughter, Anna, passed away from neuroendocrine cancer at the young age of twenty-one, Gil embarked on a heartfelt mission to raise awareness for this rare disease. Through her campaign to run in all the national parks, and her more recent journey of cycling along America’s historic canals, Gil honors Anna’s memory and brings hope to others facing similar battles.

Let’s begin with Patsy’s story.

Patsy Clairmont: Hi there, I’m Patsy Clairmont. I was a wife for sixty years, and my husband went to glory a year and a half ago, and I miss him terribly. We had two sons, and we have two grandsons whom we think are the best thing that has happened in our lives and the landscape of our experiences. I am a writer and a speaker, but these days I’ve kind of allowed myself the delight of being a painter. I’m not good, but I am colorful, and I’m enjoying it immensely. 

The Pain of Postpartum Depression

When I was twenty, after I gave birth to our first son, I began to disintegrate emotionally. I began to become unhinged because I didn’t know what to do to be different or to be well. And so I withdrew from society, thinking that if I could manage myself at home, then maybe I could grow into managing myself in society. That wasn’t to be the immediate case. And so I struggled for a number of years.  

I was on heavy medicines to try to help me manage my anxiety level. I was quite addicted to them. I was a heavy smoker, and I drank about ten pots of coffee a day, which does not help your anxiety level.  

Eventually, after withdrawing into my home, I withdrew into my bed and my prayer was, “Lord, give me a disease. Not one that’ll kill me, just one that will explain to other people why I have to hide.”

Now, instead, He brought me to a point of desperation where I realized that if something didn’t change, I wouldn’t survive myself. And it was at that point that I cried out from the depths of my being, “Lord, I’ll do whatever you ask of me.” And I heard a voice within me that said, simply, “Make your bed.” 

“God brought me to a point of desperation where I realized that if something didn’t change, I wouldn’t survive myself. And it was at that point that I cried out from the depths of my being, ‘Lord, I’ll do whatever you ask of me.’” – Patsy Clairmont

I began to argue, “Well, what difference does it make if I make it? Besides, I’m in it.” Well, that was the point. And that’s where I began on my journey of learning that God was more than just someone you said yes to, but that you began to appropriate the direction He would give you for your life and step into it, even when you didn’t feel courageous enough to do so. 

God Sends People to Tell Us The Truth

A line up of people began to come through my life that were obviously God directed, and they were loving. And they may have only been in my life for one conversation, or they may still be in my life to this day, but they were people who spoke the truth to me. One of the ways is one dear friend—she wasn’t at the time, I had just met her over the telephone, believe it or not. And we began having conversations about God. And when I would bring up an objection about, “Why would God allow me to struggle like this?” She would say, “Well, let’s ask Him.” And then she would say, “Let’s look in His Word.” And then she would say, “I want you to read this verse out loud.” And I would say, “Well, you’re the one that knows it. Why don’t you read it?” And she said, “Because I would really like it if you would read it.” Well, in the reading of the Word, the truth coming through my own lips took it deeper in my heart than it would have otherwise been. So it was a brilliant way of getting me to change the tone of conversation in my own thoughts.  

I became hungry for saying God’s Word. And then I became absolutely committed to walking in and understanding the truth as it was laid out in His council. 

“I became hungry for saying God’s Word. And then I became absolutely committed to walking in and understanding the truth as it was laid out in His council.” – Patsy Clairmont 

I have always loved words. I love to read. I love books. I love to talk. And I had to look and say, “I’ve got a lot of thoughts here that I know a loving God would not place within me, and therefore I need to start doing an exchange. I needed to learn how to refuse unloving, unkind, ungracious thoughts, replace them with things that were nurturing and healthy and true.” And I needed to keep repeating that until I got into a habit, a new groove, a new way of thinking that would sustain wellness within me. 

I had opened, by that time, a little bookstore in my house, and I would read all the books before I sold them. And then I would tell people when they came in, if they said, “Well, I just lost a friend,” I would know which book to direct them to. Or, “I had a fight with my husband.” “Well, here, this book on marriage is extremely helpful.” So I was able to guide them because of that. So finding a way to use my words that were constructive and helpful gave me a personal sense of dignity. It gave me an understanding that I could be worth something, I could be of value to another human life. And I loved that. 

“Finding a way to use my words that were constructive and helpful gave me a personal sense of dignity. It gave me an understanding that I could be worth something, I could be of value to another human life.” – Patsy Clairmont

Recognizing Your Skills and Talents

I went to a retreat where I was in charge of the book table in the back, and I heard a woman do book reviews, and my heart leapt within me and I thought, That’s what I want to do. I want to be able to tell people about the value of reading and finding truths for themselves and taking truth into their innermost parts. 

And so the group that had asked me to set up the table saw my excitement, and the following year, asked me to be the book reviewer. Well, not only did I have a passion for it, but I included humor, which is just a natural part of what I do. And it was well-received. And so they put me on the staff, and then people began to ask me if I would come to their churches and would I present books, and then would I present a small devotional while I was there? Would I do the prayer time? Would I do this? Would I do that? And the Lord kept expanding and adding to my territory.  

We realized then that God was up to something and that who He chooses, He uses, and He uses us and the gift that He has for us and brings it to the attention of others. 

And then from that, I was invited to churches, and from that I was invited on tour with Florence Littauer, helping to train people in communication skills. And from that I was invited by Focus on the Family to write my first book, and then my second book, and then my third book and my fourth one. And I had no idea that that would be how my life would unfold. I thought the dream from my childhood of being a writer was so far-fetched and impossible, especially since I had dropped my education and became so bizarre in my behavior. Little did I know that He would intervene and that He would do enough work within me that I could actually stand on a platform and share my journey.  

Know that God has a divine plan. And if you will listen carefully to what other people say you do well, you have probably found a gift that is placed within you that is so common to you, because you’ve lived with that ability, that you didn’t even recognize it for what it is and what it could be under His tutelage. 

“Know that God has a divine plan. And if you will listen carefully to what other people say you do well, you have probably found a gift that is placed within you that is so common to you, because you’ve lived with that ability, that you didn’t even recognize it for what it is and what it could be under His tutelage.” – Patsy Clairmont

Patsy Joins Women of Faith

The first four speakers for Women of Faith were Barbara Johnson, Luci Swindoll, myself, and Marilyn Meberg. We went to our first Women of Faith conference, and it was sold out. It was at a large church in California. And we thought, Well, that’s odd, that it should sell out. And we went to the second one and it was sold out with a long waiting list.  

I know when I stood and looked at that big auditorium, I said, “Lord, I’m not big enough to do this.” I mean, I’m not even five feet tall. And He assured me He was. I would get so nervous before I spoke. And I would say, “Lord, my humanity is jumping out here. I am in need.” And He said, “This is how faith is built: through trust.”  

We didn’t know God was about to start up something that would have an outreach that we couldn’t have dreamt up. We spoke to over five million women at somewhere around 500 conferences, of which I was at every single one of them. We were so overwhelmed at what God was up to, and we felt so inadequate for the invitation and yet so absolutely grateful that we were doing it as a team, because not one of us would have felt we could have done it alone.  

People began telling me what helped them. And that was part of what helped me to create an understanding of how my story could apply to someone else’s pain in ways that would help them with their recovery. After time and listening to the responses of people, I began to focus on the areas that seemed to be of the greatest value and that seemed to make a big difference. God had kind of given me enough humility to understand it’s never been about who I was. It’s always been about who He is and wants to be for us all. 

“God had kind of given me enough humility to understand it’s never been about who I was. It’s always been about who He is and wants to be for us all.” – Patsy Clairmont 

Daily Seeing the Faithfulness of God

As I look back over my life, I am so aware of the faithfulness of God. I’ve gone through very, very difficult things and great losses in my life. But what I have found is that His compassion continues. His love is steady. His provisions are real. His voice is available. His counsel in the Word and in my life situations continues. 

I think if I had not been in such a needy soul, I wouldn’t have sought to hear Him. But once you realize that we have a God who is so personal that He gave us His son, and Jesus stretched out His arms of love for us, that we might have that connection and that foundation and all the resources that have been offered to us in the gifts of the spirit… I just get overwhelmed at the thought of all He’s done, how every day He speaks to us through creation. When people say to me, “I haven’t heard from God in so long,” I say, “Have you seen a sunrise? And applauded it? Have you celebrated a sunset that lit up the sky in sherbet?” I mean, if you’ve done that, you’ve heard from God because He speaks to us every day. The heavens are declaring Him, and they’re telling us who He is. 

This prayer that I am going to share with you is from Jesus Listens, December 29th:

Restful Lord Jesus,

I confess that sometimes I get so focused on the problems I see and the predictions I hear that my joy gets buried under layers of worry and fear. When this happens, I need to bring my concerns to You—talking with You about each one, seeking Your help and guidance, asking You to remove those worry- layers. As I entrust My concerns into Your care and keeping, Joy begins to emerge again. I’ve learned that the most effective way for me to nurture this gladness is speaking and singing praises to You—the King of Glory!

In Your praiseworthy Name, 

Amen

Narrator: To learn more about Patsy and her work, please visit www.patsyclairmont.com.

Stay tuned to Gil Schaenzle’s story after a brief message.

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Deepen Your Communication With God: Jesus Listens Notetaking Edition

Jesus Listens is the 365 day prayer devotional that people everywhere use to guide their prayer life and deepen their communication with God. Now, there’s a new way to keep up with your daily prayers, the Jesus Listens Notetaking Edition. This edition includes full text of Jesus Listens, written out scripture verses, and journaling space. Experience how intentional prayer connects you to God, changes your heart, and can even move mountains.

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Our next guest is Gil Schaenzle. After the passing of her daughter, Anna, from neuroendocrine cancer, Gil felt a call to honor her life by raising awareness for those facing a similar diagnosis. Gil traversed the country by running in fifty national parks and more recently, cycling along the country’s historic canals. Her collaboration with the Healing NET Foundation has amplified her efforts, making her journey a powerful testament to a mother’s enduring love.

Gil Schaenzle: Hi, my name is Gil Schaenzle. I live in Evergreen, Colorado, and I’m also known as National Park Mom from my first campaign to raise awareness for neuroendocrine cancer.

A Shared Passion Sparks a Dream

My daughter’s name was Anna Rose Schaenzle, and she was twenty-one when she passed, just by a couple of months. And she was, well, it’s hard to describe her because she was amazing. She had a way of lovingly getting you to think the correct way about how to treat people. She had a way of just shining a light into your life or your world and just making you walk away going, “Oh, well maybe I do need to change.” So many of her friends, after she passed, said, “I want to live the Anna life. I want to be better than what I am now. I want to live the kind of life Anna had.” 

We both loved running. One day, she was having a super rough day with chemo, and I just snuggled up to her, and I said, “Honey, I’ve got this crazy idea, I want to run in all the national parks, do a half marathon.” And I said, “Will you drive the vehicle for me when you get to feeling better?” And she said, “No. I’m going to run them all with you, mama.” And then, of course, a couple months later, she was gone. 

 I don’t know what I would have done without God throughout this whole thing. I can tell you this from personal experience, after Anna passed, I was mad that He got her and I didn’t, and told Him so. He didn’t disown me. He just said, “I know, I know, but she’s safe with me now.” And He didn’t mind that I got mad at Him. He didn’t mind that I was angry that my daughter wasn’t with me anymore. He just loved me.

“I don’t know what I would have done without God throughout this whole thing.” – Gil Schaenzle

I like to say that grief is just the other side of the coin of love. You know, we get to live with the head side, the love side, for as long as God deems right. And then the other side of that coin is tails, and that’s grief. And I think that we just have to learn to sit and recognize that when grief comes to sit with us, we have to start looking at it differently. I try to be grateful every day for the love that I did get for as long as I got. I’m sorry. We just have to say this is love. This is love. 

“I like to say that grief is just the other side of the coin of love. We get to live with the head side, the love side, for as long as God deems right. And then the other side of that coin is tails, and that’s grief. And I think that we just have to learn to sit and recognize that when grief comes to sit with us, we have to start looking at it differently.” – Gil Schaenzle 

Finding Kindred Spirits to Honor Anna’s Legacy

I went to Anna’s surgeon after she passed and I said, “I have this crazy idea. Is there any way that you think we could use running a 5K to a half-marathon in every national park to help bring awareness to this cancer?” And he said, “Yes, let me put you in touch with the Healing NET Foundation,” that he helped found. And so he put me in touch with the CEO, and we got together and just realized we had such similar journeys. She also is a NET patient—NET is just short for neuroendocrine tumors. It plants these little seeds and little tumors anywhere from the top of your legs to your brain, anywhere that secretes hormones, you can get this cancer. You will also hear it referred to sometimes as NEC, which is neuroendocrine cancer. 

And it turns out the Healing NET Foundation grabbed onto the idea and thought it was fabulous. She and Dr. Lou created this foundation when they saw such a great need to educate and advocate for NET patients and for educating doctors and medical staff. 

Mementos for Marathons

When she was taking chemo and so sick, Anna’s teddy bear gave her a lot of comfort, so I just decided that when I went out on the national park run, that Teddy should come with me. And he did, so he’s been to every national park. And it was a comfort for me, too, because it was kind of a piece of her that I could take with me. 

Shortly after Anna passed, one of her friends that she did a lot of hiking with was going to do the Colorado Trail, and they were going to do it together. And so he asked me for something of hers to take along with him. The only thing I could think of to send with him was a shoelace from her hiking boot, because when you’re doing the Colorado Trail, you’ve got to keep things small and light.

And I thought, Well, maybe it would mean a lot to other people if as a NET patient or a caregiver or someone who’s lost their loved one to NET cancer, if they could just send their loved ones’ pictures with me. And so I kind of just put it out there, so in my trunk bag on the back of the bike, I have all these pictures, and I have a lot of pictures on my phone that people texted or emailed. It’s just a way to honor those who have passed and those who are still being such brave warriors every day with this cancer. 

It meant a lot to a lot of people that they could kind of be armchair travelers with me, vicariously experience the parks, and we’re doing the same thing this time, letting people vicariously experience the canals. So every day I post a bunch of pictures and just kind of briefly talk about my day on the trail. 

Seeing the World Through God’s Colored Glasses

It drove home to me God could use this dream to bring awareness to this cancer and to help other people get a diagnosis and the treatment they deserve.

I think the importance of talking to God every day can’t be overstated enough. We depend on God for our perspective in life. And when we don’t talk to God, we tend to lose that perspective. We need His eyeglasses, if you will. He has His glasses on our face to be able to see the world and treat people the way that He would treat them. 

“We depend on God for our perspective in life. And when we don’t talk to God, we tend to lose that perspective. We need His eyeglasses, if you will. He has His glasses on our face to be able to see the world and treat people the way that He would treat them.” – Gil Schaenzle 

I grew up in a church that was more legalistic, and when I got out on my own, I learned the true meaning of grace and God’s love for us. And it didn’t involve, really, any of those rules when you got down to it. That was when I started having a real relationship with my God and He became my friend. He is our God, I don’t want to take away from His omnipotence in any way, shape, or form. But I think what I read in the Bible a lot is that He just desires this really intimate relationship with us. I’ve always just talked to God like He’s here in the room with us. 

I have a very simple theory. My little theme for life is if God knows, that’s okay with me. And that may be oversimplified, but it’s a quick way to remind myself daily that I don’t need to control that situation. And mentally, that helps me say, “This is not my burden to carry.” And I don’t have to be anxious about that because God is taking care of that.  

This is from Jesus Listens, December 11th: 

Mighty God, 

You empower me— infusing inner strength into me so that I’m ready for anything and equal to anything. Please help me remember that this inner strength comes through You, Jesus, through my connection with You. It comes to me as I need it— as I take trusting steps of dependence, keeping my eyes on You. This promise is a powerful antidote to fear— especially my fear of being overwhelmed by the circumstances I see looming ahead. No matter how daunting they may look, I can trust that I am indeed ready for anything You bring into my life. 

I’m thankful that You carefully control everything that happens to me. Moreover, You are constantly protecting me from both known and unknown dangers. And You provide strength, just when I need it, for coping with challenging circumstances. 

You’ve been teaching me that many of the future things I anxiously anticipate will not actually reach me. Your promise is for the things I face in the present— and it is sufficient. So when I’m feeling the strain of an uphill journey, I need to stop and tell myself the truth: “I have strength for all things in Christ who empowers me!” 

In Your strong Name, Jesus, 

Amen

Narrator: To learn more about Gil Schaenzle and to follow her adventures, you can follow her on Instagram @national_park_mom.

If you’d like to hear more stories about uncovering God’s perfect plan for our lives, check out our interview with Jeremy Cowart. 

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Next week: Ainsley Britain

Next time on the Jesus Calling Podcast, we’ll hear from Enneagram coach Ainsley Britain, who’s taken what she’s learned about Enneagram personality typing test to help teenagers know themselves better as they cope with daily challenges in their lives.

Ainsley Britain: If we can have the knowledge and understanding that all of the root things and the root fears, the root motivations or hard things, the root trauma, all of these wounding, childhood messages can be healed with the Lord. And I believe that the Enneagram is just that helpful tool to kind of uncover that, but the real healing is with your relationship with the Lord.