Cultivating Connection Amidst Loneliness: Levi Lusko & Daniel Darling
Levi Lusko: I think when we lift our eyes, we’ll be reminded, Hey, the one who made the moon, the one who with His fingers called out the stars, with His voice, with the word of His power, separated light from darkness, He loves you. He has a plan for you.
Cultivating Connection Amidst Loneliness: Levi Lusko & Daniel Darling – Episode #383
Narrator: Welcome to the Jesus Calling Podcast. In today’s world, characterized by advanced technology and increasing isolation, there’s a pressing need to foster real connection. As technology continues to advance, genuine human connections are taking a backseat. However, in Scripture we find that God recognizes; “It is not good for man to be alone.” (Genesis 2:18). As part of God’s unique design, He wired us for meaningful connection where we find strength, love, and support from others.
This week, as we celebrate Thanksgiving and a season of connection and gratitude, we have two pastors to help us navigate a season that also can be lonely and disconnected. Author and pastor Levi Lusko sheds light on the growing loneliness crisis in our highly connected world, and Daniel Darling explains the fundamental aspects of healthy relationships, including forgiveness, reconciliation, and trust.
Plus, stick around for a special preview of Reba McEntire’s new audiobook, Not That Fancy.
Let’s begin with Levi’s story.
Levi Lusko: My name is Levi Lusko and in addition to being an avid coffee drinker, I lead a church with my wife, Jennie, called Fresh Life Church. We’re in Montana, where we preach every week, and our church also extends into Idaho, Utah, Oregon, and then, of course, all over the country and world, thanks to the wonder of technology. And then we have the privilege of getting to write books. We have four daughters, one son, our oldest is eighteen next month, and then our youngest is six, so we’re busy.
The Crisis of Connection
People are more lonely than they’ve ever been, the numbers are staggering. America is more lonely, which is sort of a contradiction, because we’re also connected to more people than we ever have been with all of our social media, but there’s a growing sense of loneliness. It’s a crisis and it’s an epidemic. I mean, the Surgeon General has literally issued a warning saying it’s more dangerous than smoking fifteen cigarettes a day or drinking six alcoholic beverages per day, that the effects of loneliness on the human body is actually more dangerous than obesity, which has long been known to be a killer. So people are so lonely they could die.
We have this technology, which is this massive two-edged sword. On one side, you have amazing medical breakthroughs, and technological breakthroughs, and AI aids and all the things, but the downside of it is it’s increasingly creating a lonely, insulated lifestyle.
The reality is we have a crisis on our hands of connection. I think talking to people, we can kind of build it up in our head and we can kind of say, “Oh, if I could just get in and get out, get my things, I’d actually be happier.” But I think on the back end of it, we just end up lonely. God made us in His Image. Who is God? God is Father, Son, Holy Spirit. So God is in relationship even within Himself. One God, three persons. He said, “Let us make man in our image.” So we cannot be fully at our best and brightest if we’re even just relating to God by ourselves because once Adam and God had their relationship, God said, “It’s not good that man should be alone.” And so I think there’s something of the human experience where our souls will always crave and always be deficient if we’re not having those vital exchanges, those conversations, those moments.
“God said, ‘It’s not good that man should be alone.’ And so I think there’s something of the human experience where our souls will always crave and always be deficient if we’re not having those vital exchanges, those conversations, those moments.” – Levi Lusko
Lifting Our Eyes to God
Psalms 8 gives us a precedent for linking together the power of creation with all the dark questions that we all wrestle with when we’re alone with ourselves. David said, “When I consider the heavens, the work of your hands, the sun, the moon, the stars, what is man that you are mindful of them? And what is the son of man that you would visit Him?” And all of us have these aching questions.
Along with the loneliness factor, I think we have to also face up to the fact that there’s a need in the human heart, a need for wonder. It was Neil deGrasse Tyson, the astrophysicist, who said that when kids come out of buildings, they intuitively look up: Hey, that cloud looks like a dinosaur. Hey, look at the stars. Hey, look at the sun. It’s adults who, in their own self-importance and hurried busyness, come out of buildings and look immediately down to their cell phone to see, Oh, I’m late. Oh, I’ve got these emails. And so I do think we would do better, like Jesus said, to all become a little bit more like little kids and to just spend more time lifting our eyes.
I think when we lift our eyes, we’ll be reminded, Hey, the one who made the moon, the one who with His fingers called out the stars, with His voice, with the word of His power, separated light from darkness, He loves you. He has a plan for you. He came in the person of Jesus to this world. He wants to have a relationship with you. And there’s a real sense of calm and comfort that comes when you sort of realize that.
“I think when we lift our eyes, we’ll be reminded, Hey, the one who made the moon, the one who with His fingers called out the stars, with His voice, with the word of His power, separated light from darkness, He loves you. He has a plan for you. He came in the person of Jesus to this world. He wants to have a relationship with you.” – Levi Lusko
God’s going to keep His promise as long as the sun and the moon remain. God’s going to be faithful and His Words are never going to pass away. It’s a safe, sure thing for us to bet our lives and to bet our deaths and everything in between on these words of God and that God will never leave us. He’ll never forsake us. No matter what you’re facing today, God is safe to build your life upon, and the weather and the wind can change in a moment, but God’s Word never will. Every time we lift our eyes to God, we’re going to feel less alone because our prayer itself reminds us we have brothers and sisters, we have a family.
“No matter what you’re facing today, God is safe to build your life upon, and the weather and the wind can change in a moment, but God’s Word never will.” – Levi Lusko
I would be remiss if I didn’t say how grateful I am for tools like Jesus Calling that help us to have and establish regular rhythms in our walk with Jesus, for us to grow, for us to have it not just be some official thing, this dispatch that we get maybe from church on a Sunday, but that every day we’re in the struggles.
Jesus Sat Where We Sit
I love this verse in Ezekiel where before he gives his prophecy, he says, “I sat where they sat. I sat where they sat.” [Ezekiel 3:15] You know, he didn’t give this sermon to the nation of Israel from afar. He sat where they sat, and then he spoke from that perspective of being right there in the midst of the suffering of captivity they were in.
And so I would say to the person who’s struggling right now, I would just say Jesus sat where you sit. He was a man of sorrows acquainted with our grief and our suffering. He didn’t give us this good news from far away. He entered into our suffering to sit where we sat. He went through puberty. He went through sorrow.
Jesus knows what you’re going through and He has a plan for you in it. He has a plan to give you power and to give you peace and to give you comfort. And I don’t say that lightly. I know what it was like to bury my own daughter. We faced loss around Christmas time, actually, and the first time Christmas came back around, we were really at a moral dilemma. Do we put the lights up? Do we put stockings up? But we found that instead of running back and shrinking back from those things by doing them, even when we had to do them through tears and shaking hands, that God met us in that pain. He met us sitting where we sat in that suffering, and there’s power for you. There’s peace there for you as you run toward the roar, doing the things that feel scary for you.
“Jesus knows what you’re going through and He has a plan for you in it. He has a plan to give you power and to give you peace and to give you comfort.” – Levi Lusko
Jesus Listens, November 7th:
Ever-present Jesus,
My thoughts tend to leap into the next day, week, month, year, or decade—and I imagine myself coping badly during the tough times I’m anticipating. But I realize that my worry-thoughts are meaningless because they don’t include You. Those dreaded times of walking alone through adversity will not come to pass since Your Presence will be with me at all times. You have promised that You will never leave me or forsake me!
When a future-oriented worry attacks me, help me to capture it and bring it into Your Presence. As I remember that You will be with me then and always, I gain confidence that I can cope—even during my toughest times.
Lord, please keep calling me back to the present moment, where there is Peace in Your Presence.
In Your calming Name,
Amen
Narrator: To learn more about Levi Lusko, check out his new children’s book, Marvel at the Moon, at your favorite retailer.
Stay tuned to Daniel Darling’s story after a brief message.
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Celebrating the Season of Advent
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Our next guest is author and pastor Daniel Darling, who made headlines after being fired as the spokesperson for the National Religious Broadcasters Association, but it wasn’t his departure that made news—it was the way he handled it. His gracious response to the situation set an example as to how treating others as we would want to be treated—the most important tenet of Christianity—sometimes gets lost in fear, judgment, and ultimately, division.
Daniel Darling: I’m Daniel Darling. I’m director of the Land Center for Cultural Engagement here at Southwestern Seminary, and I also teach in the college. I’m the assistant professor for faith and culture here in Texas Baptist College.
Living in a Divisive Age
We’re in a very divisive age, you know, we’re in a very disruptive age. I think a few factors [contribute], you have the digital revolution, which has changed the way that we communicate with each other. We’ve endured a global pandemic, we’ve endured terrorism, multiple wars. The world is very divided and confused, and of course, Christians are caught up in that. So our churches are caught up in some of the divisiveness of the age.
Paul says at one point in 1 Timothy, he says, “To fight the good fight.” In other words, there are things worth fighting for. So there’s a body of truth that has been passed down from generation to generation. In Scriptures, God has revealed to us that we can’t budge from. We have to hold on to the good and true and beautiful about who God is and who we are and who Christ is.
“Paul says at one point in 1 Timothy, he says, “To fight the good fight.” In other words, there are things worth fighting for.” – Daniel Darling
At the same time, Paul says to Timothy in 2 Timothy, “Avoid stupid and foolish arguments.” And so there are things that we may have opinions on and that may be important to us, but we should be open handed about them and learn to love and live with people who disagree. It’s especially important for the church. Jesus said that the world would know that we are His not even by our clever arguments which we should be making, not by our apologetics which we should absolutely be doing, and not even by our acts of mercy in the world which we should be doing. But He said the world would know that we are His by the way we love each other. In other words, the world should look in on Christians and say, “I don’t really understand what they believe and I think they’re a little bit crazy with this Jesus thing, but man, look how they love each other. Look how these people who have no business being together, no business calling each other brothers and sisters, how they do that.”
“Paul says to Timothy in 2 Timothy, ‘Avoid stupid and foolish arguments.’ And so there are things that we may have opinions on and that may be important to us, but we should be open handed about them and learn to love and live with people who disagree.” – Daniel Darling
Jesus said to His disciples, “Love one another as I have loved you.” [John 13:34-35] And He’s talking to a group of men that came from vastly different backgrounds—you had Matthew, who was a sellout to the Romans. He’s a tax collector. On the other hand, on the far other end of the spectrum, you have Simon the zealot. Jesus puts them together and He says, “Love one another as I’ve loved you.” In other words, all your previous ways that you identified yourself, all your previous ways that you saw yourself have gone away, because now you’re part of this new family and this new kingdom and God is remaking you.
And so love, as a believer, matters and this is why Christian unity really matters. It’s not just kind of a buzzword, it’s not just something that we should get to if we have a chance, but it’s something we should work toward as brothers and sisters in Christ. We should say, “I’m going to hold onto you amidst all this turmoil in the world, amidst these raging rapids. I’m not going to let you go as a friend.” I think this is what God is calling us to do.
“We should say, ‘I’m going to hold onto you amidst all this turmoil in the world, amidst these raging rapids. I’m not going to let you go as a friend.’ I think this is what God is calling us to do.” – Daniel Darling
It’s important for us to remember that we are made for community. This is what I love about the gospel, the gospel doesn’t just transform us, but it thrusts us into a community of believers no matter where we came from, what our background is, we have a new family. We don’t have to be alone. We can be known by God and we can know God.
“We don’t have to be alone. We can be known by God and we can know God.” – Daniel Darling
Working Towards Forgiveness
I just felt the Lord was saying, “Okay, I’ve given you this platform.” How can I use this to call the church to what’s important to unity, to forgiveness, to coming together around the things that matter instead of dividing over things that don’t matter?
I think the first level is just this basic letting go of resentment and bitterness, the unwillingness to carry that with us—and I’m talking here about deep hurts. I’m not talking about everyday garden variety insults and little quirks.
I’ve had two times in my life where I’ve had deep betrayals and where the Lord has allowed me to to experience forgiveness, and the thing about forgiveness is it’s supernatural. Once we understand how much God has forgiven us in Christ, anything that we’ve done against God is even worse than the worst thing done to us, if we can imagine that. And God gives us that ability to forgive, and what forgiveness is really simply saying is, “I’m going to release this bitterness to the Lord. I’m not going to seek vengeance in my life.”
“Once we understand how much God has forgiven us in Christ, anything that we’ve done against God is even worse than the worst thing done to us, if we can imagine that. And God gives us that ability to forgive.” – Daniel Darling
Because here’s what bitterness does, it’s really like an acid that you drink and you expect it to hurt your enemy, but it hurts yourself. And it really splashes into all of your relationships and hurts you. This happens over time. I don’t think time heals all wounds. I think time plus intentionality can heal wounds, if you are willing to allow the Lord to give you a spirit of forgiveness. I think forgiveness is also not a one time thing, but a habit, it’s a rhythm, it’s a way of life.
When Jesus tells Peter to forgive seven times seven, He’s not giving him a checklist or a formula. He’s saying, “This is gonna be a rhythm.” Every time that song comes up, every time you pass that house that reminds you of that deep hurt, every time that memory floods your mind, you can go to the Lord and give this to Him. I can promise you over time, God will give you peace. He will give you love. He will take away that bitterness.
A second level is reconciliation, and I think we should pursue reconciliation everywhere we can. You know, if we need to pick up that phone call, if we didn’t make that visit, we should do that, but it’s not always possible. You know, it requires two people and sometimes you try as hard as you can. Like Romans says, “As much as you can live at peace with all men,” but the other side’s not willing to come and meet you, we should at least try.
And then I think the third level is trust, which is an even harder thing, and that’s really not always possible, right? So you may forgive someone, you may actually reconcile and be at peace with them, but are you going to trust them with a piece of your life like that? Trust takes a long time to earn back and it can happen. So I think it’s important for us to understand these levels because sometimes we look at people and collapse all these together and we demand of people something that is more than forgiveness, more than is required, and more than is possible.
A Heart Full of Gratitude
I just want to say there are people probably gathering over Thanksgiving, and there’s a lot of hurt. There’s people who have been rejected by their families, people who have been hurt, maybe people who don’t have a great relationship with their father or their mother or their parents and have not felt that affirmation.
I would say this, especially on Thanksgiving. I would say, first of all, find common ground with people in your family. Right? Don’t automatically go to the places where you conflict. Now, sometimes you can have good arguments and good-natured disagreements, but seek peace and don’t always seek the point of contention to try to prove that you’re right, but seek common ground. And you can find common ground with almost anybody, even people who radically disagree with almost anything. Try to be a light and a witness to those folks.
And number two, be someone who’s a bridge builder, who’s a peacemaker. I’m not saying that we can’t have conflict. I think sometimes conflict is necessary to resolve things in relationships, but be someone who seeks to bring people together, seeks to be a bridge builder who demonstrates love in a radical way, and see how God will use you as a witness in your own family and in your own communities.
“See how God will use you as a witness in your own family and in your own communities.” – Daniel Darling
I just want to say God is the Father you’ve been looking for. He fills in the gaps for the way that maybe your parents have not given that to you and you can rest in Him. He’s the one who created you. He’s the one who sent Jesus to Earth to rescue you. If you’re in Him and you know Him, you’re a son or daughter of the King.
What I think I’m thankful for this year is really the sustaining grace of the Lord and His Presence in my life. I think the older we get, the more things we endure, the more fragile and frail we see ourselves. We’re thankful for His sustaining grace. I think many of us are walking with a little bit of a limp, right? And I think that’s good to remind us of our own frailties.
I want to encourage folks if you’re listening, if you’re lonely, if you’re hurting, if you’re discouraged, especially around the holidays, to reach out to a friend. Maybe if you haven’t gone to church in a few years, maybe try that again this holiday season. And most of all, to reach out to God through Jesus.
I love Jesus Calling because it really personalized the relationship we have with God and reminds us that God is also a personal God. This is one thing that makes Christianity unique, that we don’t have to wonder what God is saying. He has spoken to us through His Word and through His son, and He desires a personal relationship with us through Jesus. And so I love the way that Jesus Calling helps remind us that we’re praying to a personal God. We can ask Him for our personal needs. We can draw on Him for strength in our own personal lives, and what a blessing it has been to my family and to countless other families.
“We’re praying to a personal God. We can ask Him for our personal needs. We can draw on Him for strength in our own personal lives, and what a blessing it has been to my family and to countless other families.” – Daniel Darling
So this is from Jesus Listens, this is the December 28th entry, and it says:
Delightful Lord,
I love listening to the song that You continually sing to me: “I take great delight in you; I renew you by My Love; I shout for Joy over you.” The voices of this world are a cacophony of chaos, pulling me this way and that. Help me not to listen to those voices but to challenge them with Your Word. Show me how to take breaks from the noise of the world—finding a place to be still in Your Presence so I can hear Your voice.
I believe there is immense hidden treasure to be found through listening to You. You are always pouring out blessings upon me, but some of Your richest blessings have to be actively sought. I rejoice when You reveal Yourself to me—through Your Word, Your people, and the wonders of creation.
In Your generous Name, Jesus,
Amen
Narrator: To learn more about Daniel and his work, please visit www.danieldarling.com, and be sure to check out his latest book, Agents of Grace, at your favorite retailer.
If you’d like to hear more stories about turning to God when we’re lonely, check out our interview with Larry Randolph and Jennifer Bleakley.
Now, please enjoy this special preview of Reba McEntire’s audiobook, Not That Fancy.
Reba McEntire: I have so many friends that I am so fortunate to get to be around, work with, and socialize with. From the very beginning of my career, God has put wonderful people in my life. I know that not everyone gets to work with amazing friends. So I am always grateful that every member of my team is a dear friend. If you want to have a great friendship, you have to be a great friend. That means showing up for them in good times and bad. Even something as small as a check in text or a random handwritten note can make someone feel real special. If you do your best to always treat your friends how you want to be treated, you’ll have friendships you can count on for life.
Next week: Eric Constanzo
Narrator: Next time on the Jesus Calling Podcast, we’ll hear from pastor of South Tulsa Baptist Church, Eric Constanzo, who shares about his church’s refugee program that was created to foster a sense of community and belonging to those seeking a new life in the United States.
Eric Costanzo: God will bring people across your path who can encourage you and help you feel part of community, but there’s no human being who can provide the love and care and the confidence that the Lord can give. We just have to seek Him.
