Mart Green: I felt like I kind of had to earn God’s love, and I did something wrong, He put me in the corner. I realized that I don’t pursue God. As David Bowman says, the door to these gateways doesn’t swing in. You don’t have to push in and go to them. The door swings out. God’s already there. He’s standing there waiting for us to get there.  

Life’s Wounds Become a Pathway to Healing: Mart Green & Clarissa and Fiona Moll – Episode #443

Narrator: Welcome to the Jesus Calling Podcast. This week, we welcome Mart Green, the founder and CEO of Mardel Christian & Education and of Every Tribe Every Nation, and the Ministry Investment Officer for the Hobby Lobby family of companies founded by his father, David Green. Mart opens up about a pivotal trip he took to Guatemala that showed him the power of God’s love in a highly personal way that he never really had grasped before, and how life’s wounds became a pathway for him toward healing and deeper connection with God and others.

Later in the episode, we’ll hear from Clarissa and Fiona Moll, a mother/daughter duo navigating the complexities of grief after the unexpected loss of husband and father, Rob. Facing life as a single mother, Clarissa—now a bereavement advocate and author—shares how she and Fiona worked toward a new normal without Rob by their sides. Together, they share how they deal with the pain of loss, and the small steps they’ve taken toward healing.

Let’s begin with Mart Green’s story.

Mart Green: My name is Mart Green and I have lived in Oklahoma all of my life. I’ve been married to my wife, Diana, for forty-two years. We were privileged to have four children, and they gave us thirteen grandchildren.  

I was nine years old when my dad decided that he wanted to start a business in our home. He borrowed $600 and bought a chopper and some wood. We cut that wood and we glued [together] little mini frames. I got paid $0.07 per frame to glue. And two years later, my dad opened Hobby Lobby. 

When I was nineteen, I quit school and started a company called Mardel Christian & Education, a Christian bookstore and educational store. And then about ten years ago, I took on the position of ministry investment officer for Hobby Lobby.  

Investing in God’s People

I had a defining moment in my life, and it was on February 7th, 1998. I was in Guatemala. And the reason I was in Guatemala is that Mardel Christian bookstores sells Bibles, and we also tithe our profits, so we wanted to give back. And we found out that we could pay for the first edition Bibles that were being translated. There’s actually 6,000 unique, vital languages on planet Earth, and there’s still lots of languages that do not have a single verse of the Bible. There’s a lot of different organizations that come together and they translate the Bible. And so for Mardel, it was a thrill for us to be able to pay for the printing of the first editions.  

On the flight down to Guatemala to the dedication of this Bible, they gave me a sheet of paper, and on the sheet of paper it said that people group is named the Eastern Jacaltec. Now the Eastern Jacaltec only has 30,000 people. 8,000 of them can read. 1,000 are believers. 400 believers can read. Now, I’m a numbers guy, and that’s the first thing I saw in the paper. And I’m like, “You’ve got to be kidding me. I just sent all that money down there, and only 400 people can even read the Bible?”

I was in a bad mood. I’m like, “Is this a good use of time and money?” In my business mind, it was just the ROI question. And then I looked at the sheet of paper and it said the translation actually started in 1958. This was 1998. So I’m going to meet a couple from America that has gone down and spent forty years of their life translating the New Testament for a people group. 

Well, when I got down there, the city was excited, right? They’ve waited forty years to get a New Testament bound in their heart language. So during the ceremony, Gaspar, who’s one of the translators, went forward to get his Bible after waiting forty years to get the full New Testament. He did something I’d never seen before. He openly wept. Tears were coming down his face. Matter of fact, he pulled a handkerchief out of his pocket to wipe his face, because he was crying as he got God’s Word. 

And in that moment, it was a Holy Spirit prompting, because there’s a question that entered my brain. And the question was, “Why don’t you go tell Gaspar he’s not a good ROI?” So in one moment I went from, Why did you translate the Bible for the smallest people group? to How are you going to make sure that everybody on planet Earth has God’s Word in their heart language? That was a defining moment that helped me understand the power of God’s love and that He’s chasing me down. 

Reflecting on How God Shows Up in Our Lives

I have been journaling since 1998. So I went back over my journals and looked over what God had done, and sometimes you forget, so it was a fun opportunity for me to go back and remember all the amazing things God has done over these years since 1998.  

Sometimes I’d go back and tell where God did something amazing in my life, and just being able to share that, I got closer to the Lord because I remembered it. 

“Sometimes I’d go back and tell where God did something amazing in my life, and just being able to share that, I got closer to the Lord because I remembered it.” – Mart Green 

The one subject that I’m passionate about is intimacy with God. And if I want that for my family, which I do, I want them to love God intimately and love extravagant generosity. If I want that for my family, I really have to hope for the same thing for the eight billion people who live on this planet. So if I had one dream and one desire for everyone on this planet, it’s that they’d have an intimate relationship with God.  

One of the things I love about the book Jesus Calling is its main theme is intimacy with God. Generosity and intimacy with God is a deep theme in Jesus Calling. And also Jesus Calling speaks frequently about God’s unconditional love, which is not based on performance or perfection. His love for us is constant, no matter our circumstances or failures. We can have intimacy with God in our brokenness and in our suffering, in our wounds. 

My wife of forty-two years, we had times that were phenomenal in our marriage, we had times that were tough. Ever since I was a teenager, when people come to me with a problem, they want it fixed. I assumed that’s what my wife wanted when she brought me her emotions and her feelings. No, that’s not what your wife wants. She wants you to go down in the well with her and feel her emotions, because those emotions are real. You’re trying to talk her out of what she feels, so she feels like you don’t believe they’re real. I learned that it wasn’t my family that needed fixing. It was me that needed fixing. I realized my relationship with them was rough. I just need to go in the well with them, understand their feelings, acknowledge their feelings were real. And I’m still working on it. It’s one of my wounds that I’m trying to overcome. 

The Broken Moments Brings Us Closer to God

As I look back on my life, the broken spots, the wounds that I have had, not understanding the emotions of my family, having one of my best friends die of COVID-19, you know, the suffering… those are times that, yes, they’re painful and they hurt, but they are also going to be times that we get close to the Lord. What you have to unlearn is that wounds close me off from receiving God’s love. 

“As I look back on my life, the broken spots, the wounds that I have had, not understanding the emotions of my family, having one of my best friends die of COVID-19, you know, the suffering… those are times that, yes, they’re painful and they hurt, but they are also going to be times that we get close to the Lord.” – Mart Green

God tells us in second Corinthians that He heals us of our wounds, so that then we can go heal others with the same wound. So wherever we get wounded, if we will allow the Lord to heal us—now that takes time and we need to go through that process. But once we’re healed, it’s so much easier to put our shirts on and cover those scars and not let people see our scars. But really, we need to let people see our scars at the proper time, the proper place. 

If you allow God to heal you of that deep wound, then God will use you and bring others alongside you. There’s been several times I had experiences that have been miraculous and they’re mountaintop stories and they’re fun to tell. But we’ve had lots of failures behind the scenes. God is there with us. He never leaves us. He helps us go through this.

“If you allow God to heal you of that deep wound, then God will use you and bring others alongside you…God is there with us. He never leaves us. He helps us go through this.” – Mart Green 

Jesus Calling was a great tool in my life to encourage me that, yes, the journey I’m on is a journey that is not new to me, not unique to me, but something Christians have gone through since Christ has been on earth with us.  

I would love to share with you from the Jesus Calling Commemorative Edition, February 9th: 

Seek My Face more and more. You are really just beginning your journey of intimacy with Me. It is not an easy road, but it is a delightful and privileged way: a treasure hunt. I am the Treasure, and the Glory of My Presence glistens and shimmers along the way. Hardships are part of the journey too. I mete them out ever so carefully, in just the right dosage, with a tenderness you can hardly imagine. Do not recoil from afflictions since they are among My most favored gifts. Trust Me and don’t be afraid, for I am your Strength and Song.

Amen

Narrator: Be sure to check out Mart’s new book, Learning To Be Loved, at your favorite retailer. 

Stay tuned to Clarissa and Fiona Moll’s story after a brief message.

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Jesus Listens 

If your days feel overwhelming, or life has you anxious and stressed, you can find peace and hope with Jesus Listens. Written by bestselling author Sarah Young, Jesus Listens contains 365 heartfelt prayers based on scripture. Whether it serves as your only prayer for the day or simply to jumpstart your own prayers, Jesus Listens empowers you to connect daily with God. It’s such a blessing to know that Jesus hears every one of our prayers.

Gift Jesus Listens to anyone struggling to feel God’s presence, or use it to establish your own consistent prayer practice. Let Sarah’s words and her Bible verse references enrich your life and your relationship with God. To learn more about Jesus Listens and download a free sample, please visit www.jesuscalling.com/jesuslistens. 

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Clarissa and Fiona Moll experienced a devastating loss through the accidental death of husband, father, and journalist, Rob Moll. Together they share how they got through this devastating time, and the small steps they took toward healing. 

Clarissa Moll: Hi, my name is Clarissa Moll and I am the producer and moderator of Christianity Today’s The Bulletin Podcast. I am also a bereavement advocate and author of books that help people who are grieving flourish after loss. 

Fiona Moll: Hi, I am Fiona, her daughter, and I will be heading off to college this fall. I’m also the co-author of one of her books. 

The Loss of a Beloved Husband and Father

Clarissa: I always love to talk about my husband, Rob. We were married for seventeen years and had four children together. He was an endlessly curious man, a man who had a nose for news, a lifetime journalist. He was a doting husband and father. He was the guy who would yell the loudest at the Little League games. He would cheer the loudest at the 4-H competitions. He was always ready to hoist a child onto his shoulders for a weekend hike with the family. Rob was the quintessential family man. He certainly wasn’t perfect, but he was a perfect fit for the family that we grew together. 

Fiona: We were a family of six, and my dad worked while my mom homeschooled me and my three other siblings. We would often go out for hikes together and spend time in nature together as a family. And our family was pretty normal. We would go on road trips together and vacations and we really had a great time. 

Clarissa: Because we homeschooled, we had the luxury of living on the road for a few months every summer. We traveled over 30,000 miles our first summer in a camper that we had renovated together as a family, and did it again another summer, and were headed out on the road for a third summer on the road together when halfway through our family vacation, my husband, Rob, fell to his death in a hiking accident in Mount Rainier National Park in the Pacific Northwest of the U.S. 

Fiona: Initially, I was shell shocked. I think our whole family was. The first thought that went through my mind was, This can’t be happening to me. I thought, This only happens in movies and storybooks where something sad happens, but everything turns out great in the end.

Clarissa: That accident changed our entire existence. Overnight, I became a widow with four children. I was faced with learning to parent alone, to become a breadwinner all on my own. Meanwhile, I was trying to shoulder my own shock and grief as I learned to live with this gaping hole that had entered my life through his death. 

“Overnight, I became a widow with four children. I was faced with learning to parent alone, to become a breadwinner all on my own. Meanwhile, I was trying to shoulder my own shock and grief as I learned to live with this gaping hole that had entered my life through his death.” – Clarissa Moll 

Solo Parenting After the Loss of a Partner

When I learned that I was now a solo parent, I was in shock. I had always parented with a partner, and so learning that I was going to be called to do that alone was really, really scary. And the first thoughts that I had were, How can I be both mom and dad? And the reality was that I couldn’t be two people. I could only be me. And that, really, was to be the beginning of giving myself grace in that grief. I had to be very honest—ruthlessly, painfully honest—with my kids and tell them when I didn’t know what I was doing. I think there’s a facade that we can maintain among parents when we cover each other’s backs, when we’re learning as we go. But now my kids saw my life under a microscope, and they could see when I didn’t know what I was doing. And I had to be honest about that, while also giving them confidence that I could chart a path forward for our family. It’s a really difficult needle to thread.

I didn’t want my kids to grow up faster than they needed to. They already knew more darkness in their lives than most kids their age. And so it was really important for me to allow them to be playful, for them to not feel like they needed to fill their dad’s shoes. And that meant something different for each one. 

So I learned things like self-care. It wasn’t about spa days or painting my nails. Self-care was about being able to take a shower or sleep an hour later on a Saturday morning, enjoy a cup of coffee slowly in the morning, or get together with a friend while someone else watched my children. 

So what I realized over time was that I actually wasn’t a solo parent. I wasn’t doing this all alone. The true grace in the grief that I had experienced was the grace of a community coming around me. Extra aunties and uncles and coaches and leaders and school teachers, band directors, all of these people stood ready to link arms and partner with me in raising my children. And so in those moments when I felt like I was most alone, God gave me the grace to see that He had been sufficient for me all along. And usually it showed up in a casserole dish, or a ride to baseball practice, or just an hour of alone time.

“In those moments when I felt like I was most alone, God gave me the grace to see that He had been sufficient for me all along.” – Clarissa Moll

The Small Steps We Take Toward Healing from Grief

Fiona: When my dad first died, I felt lost in my life and in my emotions and in who I was and what I was becoming. And so one thing that really anchored me was my relationship with God. The one verse that was my north star was Jeremiah 29:11: “For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you a hope and a future.” And whether I was doing a Bible study or devotionals or just reading my Bible, that was the thing that anchored me in that time.

Clarissa: The verse that became my guiding light was Psalm 118:17 that said, “I shall not die, but live and declare the works of the Lord.” And perhaps it reflects the desperation that I felt when I began communicating with God after Rob died. I didn’t get mad or upset at Him. I didn’t ask why, but I did ask, What now? over and over again. I understood that rain falls on the just and the unjust alike, that bad things happen to good people, that we live in a broken world. I could understand all of that, but I couldn’t see any light in the darkness that had just fallen over and around our family. And so that verse, “I will not die, but I will live,” I had to sit in that first section, truly believing that I wasn’t going to die, that I didn’t need to despair, and that one day, through that suffering and through that trial by fire, I would be able to declare God’s praises. 

The first year that my youngest returned to school, her teacher used the Jesus Calling for Kids as the daily devotional in their classroom. I remember that little red book sitting there on the stool as just a hopeful token of the work that God was doing, not just in me, but in my family as well. It was a reminder that I didn’t need to have it all together, that I didn’t need to have the answer to all of my questions, that I didn’t need to muster up faith on my own. 

To have a loved one die means that you have a complicated relationship with those things that you once loved. To leave all of his things just as he left them. And so part of our grieving process together as a family was to honestly confront those things that were very painful. 

Fiona: I can remember the first times that I listened to his music after he died, or the first few hikes that we went on. I remember them being really hard and saying to myself, “Maybe we just shouldn’t do this. Maybe this isn’t the right time.” But even through the pain, it has reminded me of how much I loved him and still love him.

Clarissa: And sometimes it meant doing that in very baby steps, leaving his shoes in the closet because we couldn’t bear to put them away or, keeping all of his CDs out and listening to his music, even though it brought lots of tears. And then other times it was big leaps of faith where we really had to place our trust in God and say, “God, we’re going to take a hike together as a family, and we’re going to trust that you’re going to keep us safe,” even though every single cell in our bodies told us that bad things can happen, even to people who aren’t risky, who do everything right.

Fiona: Whenever we go outside or spend time in the mountains that he used to love, it almost feels like he is around us and that we can feel him there. And also, I can feel God’s presence so much in the places that he loved.

Clarissa: And so coming back to these things that we loved before, we’ve come back to them with a new respect, with a new honesty. And I think with a new love, to be able to find the comfort that lies in them, even in the midst of suffering.

Narrator: To learn more about Clarissa and Fiona Moll, be sure to check out their new book, Hurt Help Hope, at your favorite retailer.

If you’d like to hear more stories about feeling God’s love even when we’re hurting, check out our interview with Joni Eareckson Tada. 

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Next week: Ellen Skrmetti

Next time on the Jesus Calling Podcast, we’ll hear from comedian Ellen Skrmetti, who shares how she lightens the load of life with laughter and joy. 

Ellen Skrmetti: When you can start to laugh about things, you realize that things are going to be okay. That’s what comedy means to me. It reminds me that we’re going to be okay.